Luminous - A Catholic Woman and Her Thoughts on Life, the Universe, and Everything

Luminous

A Catholic Woman and Her Thoughts on Life, the Universe, and Everything

Tuesday, February 21, 2006

Purgatory over Iced Vanilla Latte: A curious conversation between Carl and Dave

I friend sent me this - I thought it was great!

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Purgatory over Iced Vanilla Latte:
A curious conversation between Carl and Dave

Hi. This is a special edition of the CatholicDiscovery.
How can you share your faith in a coffee shop:

A curious conversation.

Dave: Hey, Carl, what did you get-iced latte?

Carl: Yeah, with vanilla. You?

Dave: Caramel frappucino.

Carl: Remember when the only choices were cream and sugar?

Dave: Here's to a more enlightened age.

Carl: Hey, man, thanks for inviting me. That was a nice funeral. Yourgrandma was great - I always loved her lemon meringue pie.

Dave: Thanks, Carl. I'm going to miss her.

Carl: I'll definitely keep her in my prayers.

Dave: Um.

Carl: Um?

Dave: Well. . . maybe it's because I'm not Catholic, but. . . um, whywould you pray for my grandma? She's dead. She doesn't need prayers.

Carl: Well, unless she was perfect when she died, she's probably in purgatory.

Dave: C'mon, you believe in purgatory? I thought the Catholic Churchgot rid of purgatory with Vatican II.

Carl: I've heard Catholics say the same thing. But contrary to popular belief, purgatory is Church doctrine. The Catechism of the CatholicChurch teaches that purgatory exists and that we can help the soulsthere by our prayers (cf. CCC 1030-2).

Dave: Sorry, man, I'm not Catholic, so the Catechism isn't exactly the final word for me. Of course there's an afterlife, but the Bible mentions only heaven and hell. You know I don't hate the Catholic Church. But, dude, purgatory is just a Catholic invention.

Carl: Let me ask you a question: If you die loving God perfectly,where will you go?

Dave: Heaven, of course.

Carl: If you die not loving God at all, where will you go?

Dave: Hell.

Carl: Great. Perfect love and you go to heaven. No love and you go tohell. But what if you are somewhere in between? Where do you go if you die sorta loving God?

Dave: What do you mean?

Carl: What if we love God but not wholeheartedly? What if our love ofGod is mixed with love of self? Where do you go if you're in the middle: loving God-sorta?

Dave: You still go to heaven. God just makes up for the lack.

Carl: If you mean God makes up for the lack by purifying us for a time in purgatory, then you agree with the Catholic Church. If you mean that God makes up for the lack by sneaking us - still foul with sins and self-love - into heaven under the mantle of Christ's righteousness, then you agree with Martin Luther.

Dave: Well, I guess I'm siding with Luther.

Carl (pulling out his Bible): But against Scripture. The Bible says of heaven, "Nothing unclean shall enter it" (Rev. 21:27). You see, God isperfect holiness (cf. Is. 6:3), and we're supposed to have that same holiness: "You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect" (Matt. 5:48). " As he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; since it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy'" (1 Pet. 1:15-16).

Without perfect holiness, we cannot see God in heaven. Now, Dave, be honest: Do you have perfectlove and perfect holiness?

Dave: No - no, of course not. Most people are in the middle: loving God, sort of.

Carl: So the reasonable answer is purgatory.

Dave: For Catholics, maybe.

Carl: For reasonable people. To loosely quote Samuel Johnson, a non-Catholic: "Purgatory is a harmless doctrine. Catholics believethat most men are neither so wicked as to deserve hell, nor so good asto merit heaven, and therefore God graciously allows a middle state,where they may be purified by certain degrees of suffering. There isnothing unreasonable in this."

Dave: Never heard of him.

Carl: Surely you've heard of C. S. Lewis, another non-Catholic, who said: "Our souls demand purgatory, don't they? Would it not break theheart if God said to us, 'It is true, my son, that your breath smellsand your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here andno one will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you.Enter into the joy'? Should we not reply, 'With submission, sir, andif there is no objection, I'd rather be cleansed first.' 'It mayhurt, you know.' 'Even so, sir.'"

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By Jim Burnham (www.catholic.com ThisRockMagazine)
Jim Burnham is the author of the Beginning Apologetics series,available through Catholic Answers, and is a member of the CatholicAnswers speakers bureau. He writes from New Mexico

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Generally speaking, you aren't going to convert your friend over a coffee - but you might be able to make them think! So, don't be afraid to use a teaching moment, when the Holy Spirit hands you one. Gently talk to your friends - don't preach, don't hammer on them! Just try and get them thinking. And then let the Holy Spirit touch their hearts.

Written at 7:10 AM by Luminaria2112.

1 comments

1 Comments:

Patti said...

I love this post. It gets the theology of purgatory in a very simple-but doctrinely correct way. It's nice to know that non-Catholics believe in it too.

1:14 PM, March 11, 2006